tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post2225499879467041237..comments2024-03-17T00:00:13.417+00:00Comments on The Wertzone: MASS EFFECT 3 and the Great Ending ControversyAdam Whiteheadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-20112373674055321882019-07-26T01:20:55.147+00:002019-07-26T01:20:55.147+00:00Player agency wasn't taken away. Those who thi...Player agency wasn't taken away. Those who think the destroy ending makes your choices irrelevant. If you convince the Starchild to let the geth live, not destroy the mass relay network so that it doesn't strand everyone in the Sol system, and have Shepard live or die, then you get a happy ending. That's what people want. They're mad because they didn't get a happy ending. <br /><br />They just think because the Starchild says about the geth dying, and the mass relays being destroyed actually believe the kid to be true. They don't think maybe this thing is lying to save its own skin. Of course, people say, well, they don't literally tell you the kid is lying, so everything he says must be true. Well, it's a Reaper, so it also said Shepard would die, but if your EMS is high enough you come out unscathed. So isn't that an indicator that the kid is lying? The Reapers also have the ability to control people's minds, so who knows if what you see at the end is actually real, but these people actually want the game to bash them over the head and tell them it isn't real. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-24061518283098237402012-06-04T16:37:03.687+00:002012-06-04T16:37:03.687+00:00I think when faced with those three (a. b. c.) opt...I think when faced with those three (a. b. c.) options, you just want to chose d. and do what you set out to do and kill the reapers and save everyone.<br /><br />However, we did get that "We saved everyone" ending in ME2<br /><br />Here's just a couple things that Synthesis ending means (as I imagine it's intended as the optimal ending).<br /><br />1. Civilization will now develop along it's own path (not according to the path chosen for it by the mass relay tech)<br /><br />2. The Reaper solution, (which represented an imperfect synthesis of organic and synthetic life) is replaced in an elegant way that as a bonus, preserves the current galactic civilizations. <br /><br />2b. The distinction of Organic and Synthetic is removed so Organics will not be dominated and destroyed by synthetics***<br /><br />*** I don't believe this is a logical fallacy (replacing one threat with another) because the Reapers purpose was to maintain organic life in the galaxy. The "catalyst" believed that inevitably, synthetics like geth would destroy all organic life (not just advanced civilization). <br /><br />Also, it is of note that although the invasion meant many would die, the reapers returned to "harvest" and incorporate organic life in their own creation and not simply kill everyone.<br /><br />Of course that's not the ending I would come up with. My ending would be that the catalyst was a stargate and Jack Oneill and SG1 come through and save the day.Clivernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-56986433946536428752012-04-20T04:54:50.243+00:002012-04-20T04:54:50.243+00:00In colleges, universities, and technical instituti...In colleges, universities, and technical institutions, they need a course simply called, "Storyline: how not to screw up the ending for your fans."<br /><br />Seriously. I am tired of these writers who think somehow, they are not beholden to the people enjoying their work. Because they are. <br /><br />And all that happens when you get shafted as a fan. Whether we are talking about BSG RGM, scene cut to black in Sopranos, or yes, the supposedly final chapter of the epic Mass Effect trilogy. All that happens is you make us lose faith in your product. We go to be entertained knowing in the back of our minds these writers are probably going to shaft us at the end. <br /><br />Whether its due to being cluelessness, arrogance, or just lack of skill in tying up the storyline I dunno.<br /><br />Mass Effect now joins the infamous list of sci-fi series like Final Fantasy in clueless endings that make no sense. (And makes the fan wonder why they invested so much time in the first place..)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-17120320437404359352012-04-15T11:57:46.016+00:002012-04-15T11:57:46.016+00:00This is a really well-written assessment of a lot ...This is a really well-written assessment of a lot of the issues with ME3's ending. Well done.<br /><br />I always had the same problem with and idea about Indoctrination Theory as you mentioned here. In the Final Hours app, I believe it's mentioned that the developers scrapped some mechanices for a possible Indoctrination scene as being 'too complex' to pull off with their time constraints, so I completely believe that Indoctrination was the route they were headed down before they ran out of time and hastily put together something else.<br /><br />As for the issues with the Catalyst and the plot of ME1 - when you're watching/reading something that's well written and you have a question, investigating that question will usually lead you to some tidbit of info you missed or forgot about, and you'll go 'ohhh, right, okay' and move on. When you're watching/reading something that's not-so-well written and you have a question, you'll find yourself fumbling around to cobble together any number of possible explanations based on what you know. Forgiveable when it's just a subplot or something small and unimportant. Horrendous when it's a plothole that tears into the major culmination of two parts of a trilogy.<br /><br />Stuff like that leads me to believe that the ending was really rushed. Especially with the virtually-identical-no-matter-what-you-choose ending sequences, and the number of plotholes that could have been solved just by adding in a few more lines of dialogue.<br /><br />Like how in ME2: The Arrival we find out that destroying a mass relay effectively destroys the solar system it's in. Yet when the Catalyst tells Shepard that using the Crucible will destroy all the mass relays, he doesn't so much as ask whether or not that will toast the universe. It's not like the Catalyst is a figure we can place a lot of faith in - he throws around illogical arguments left and right and professes to control our most heinous enemies. I realize Shepard's pretty beat up, but taking two seconds to wonder whether or not we're on the fast-track to complete annihilation for EVERYONE, not just the space-faring races, would have been nice.<br /><br />Which brings me to another huge problem I had with the ending - why, exactly, are we taking the Catalyst's statements at face value? I realize it looks like a kid, but it just admitted to creating the Reapers. The REAPERS. The beings that don't just commit routine mass genocide, but do it in quite possibly the most cruel and malevolent way possible (see: needlessly melting people alive). I once saw someone rebut this argument with 'why does Shepard take ANYONE's claims at face value?' which is a ridiculous argument, since there are several very, very, VERY good reasons to assume that the Catalyst might not be 100% honest. Heck, even if you think he's telling the truth, there are decent odds that he's just plain wrong (see: everything that comes out of his mouth).<br /><br />As I understand it, the original ending envisioned for the series basically boiled down to choosing whether to sacrifice humanity to bolster the Reapers forces in order to stop another, even bigger threat, or destroying the Reapers once and for all at the risk of losing the rest of the galaxy to said bigger threat. That's probably why the current ending doesn't line up thematically with the rest of the series - they WERE going for a unity, faith, selfishness, selflessness, cooperation, pessimism vs optimism, self preservation vs greater good type of complex dilemma, hence the constant discussions of humanity's individual value as a species versus the importance of the galactic community as a whole. They just ditched it in favour of the synthetic/organic theme, which probably would have been valid at the end of ME1, but definitely fell into the same side-plot category as the genophage and such by ME3.<br /><br />Very disappointing, all in all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-1882340088900676982012-04-04T02:40:55.929+00:002012-04-04T02:40:55.929+00:00Yes, there's a screenshot of that in the artic...Yes, there's a screenshot of that in the article :-)<br /><br />However, the 'Shepard Lives!' ending is only possible if you've gotten the best outcome for every thing in the game (and the two before it) and also played a fair bit of multiplayer. For a lot of people (including me), Shepard dies in all three endings.Adam Whiteheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-41114432270752246552012-04-04T00:42:59.849+00:002012-04-04T00:42:59.849+00:00Actually, Shephard does not die in the Destroy end...Actually, Shephard does not die in the Destroy ending. We see him breathing just before the credits.Komutannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-57402131188836921012012-03-30T18:31:46.987+00:002012-03-30T18:31:46.987+00:00That suggested ending is interesting, basically be...That suggested ending is interesting, basically being almost as esoteric as what BioWare were going for but balancing it better against established lore. I like the fact that the human Reaper from ME2 (which is kind of forgotten about, aside from a possible cameo on the Cerberus base) is given more of a rationale and plays a role in the end. And of course making Harbinger the face of the Reapers and the main enemy makes much more logical sense.Adam Whiteheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-36112040488360291232012-03-30T08:46:06.326+00:002012-03-30T08:46:06.326+00:00http://myme3ending.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/my-me3...http://myme3ending.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/my-me3-endingw/2u3ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17309549863548361808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-42813807707736782492012-03-29T09:39:35.920+00:002012-03-29T09:39:35.920+00:00Cheers for this Adam. With kids, I've not had ...Cheers for this Adam. With kids, I've not had the time to play the games but have of course heard the outrage. Nice to see exactly what it's all about. <br /><br />Looks as irritating as when Lorien stopped the Shadow War in B5 by telling everyone off.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09622441892958864311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-88415013463026257892012-03-29T00:23:00.145+00:002012-03-29T00:23:00.145+00:00The cynical part of me says, "Wait for the DL...The cynical part of me says, "Wait for the DLC to explain it...." The REALLY cynical part of me says, "Wait for the first installment for the next Mass Effect trilogy to explain it...."Russnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-49389122338508350652012-03-28T02:54:58.578+00:002012-03-28T02:54:58.578+00:00I agree with you Bryan B on that point, that is a ...I agree with you Bryan B on that point, that is a bitter pill that should not be swallowed.ssgoriknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-85745868794791249442012-03-27T13:56:14.452+00:002012-03-27T13:56:14.452+00:00On that final note, it'd be interesting to rea...On that final note, it'd be interesting to read your thoughts on what SF stories have produced a good ending. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-61197297510109524792012-03-27T12:42:48.427+00:002012-03-27T12:42:48.427+00:00WTF!!!WTF!!!Fantasisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13603016033215500577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-13256620214352538412012-03-27T12:20:24.604+00:002012-03-27T12:20:24.604+00:00This is definently why I like going to your blog h...This is definently why I like going to your blog here. Excellent write up as usual.<br /><br />I definently like the indoctrination theory. But I will through out that if this is actually what the ending signifies, then they couldn't have ended it anywhere else. You make the argument that they should have been more clear, but to make the ending significant they really couldn't have.<br /><br />The problem is in this day and age there is the internet. If, as you posit only one of the three choices, destroying the reapers, gets you past the indoctrination, the other two options become meaningless. People will find out that you have to destroy the reapers to beat the indoctrination, and to then continue your fight with shepard, otherwise, presumably you die, or you stay under the influence of indoctrination. Eitherway, only one of the three choices would allow you to continue on to the "true ending" that we seem to be desiring. <br /><br />So yeah, if the indoctrination ending is canon, then they couldn't have explained it. The point of indoctrination is that you don't realize it is going on. If you as the player realized it was giong on, it would ruin the effect. And I think this emotional effect is what they wanted all along.<br /><br />So in conclusion, I do hope they eventually release a better ending in the form of a DLC. And it is right that they do so. As that ending couldn't have been present in the game as is, and still have the same effect. But I do hope they are able to clear up a lot of the other plot holes later.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10867092301002152297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-61389560610111881862012-03-27T11:29:14.205+00:002012-03-27T11:29:14.205+00:00"I'm good with all the bitter pills possi..."I'm good with all the bitter pills possible. Especially if it's the ending. Not everything should have a happy ending, especially when it involves a war. Anytime something happens that blows everything to shit or my favorite character dies I tip my hat and say thanks for having the balls to do that. On a note about killing characters, especially my favorites, I do like having the chance to see how they face death in whatever form it comes. A thought occurs to me which is I hope no one considers this trolling. I really do like swallowing all those bitter pills."<br /><br />I think you are misunderstanding me somewhat. As I said, I am okay with dark endings. I'm even perfectly great with subversive endings. What I'm not cool with is a series that purports to be about player agency and choice providing me with three fixed and nearly identical endings, all three of which completely undo and undermine all the prior decisions I've made in the series. That is terrible game design. That is the bitter pill.Jason Boulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15269351901077604805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-31599875229099137142012-03-27T10:50:46.697+00:002012-03-27T10:50:46.697+00:00While it would be a twist of tremendous magnitude,...While it would be a twist of tremendous magnitude, it wouldn't be up there with KotOR and Revan. <br /><br />Pulling it out in the last moment and letting it immediately end again would be an overall meaningless plot and a tremendous messing with player's experiences. It's also all to easy to interpret an argument between representatives of the good and evil sides as direct figments of the imaginations and not very well explained as to why there has to be such a weird parallel-reality with true and false reasons randomly intermixed, instead of a more direct influence. It's just overly subtle and confusing, with too much emotional turmoil and too little point in either doing it ingame or business-wise.<br /><br />It would not only have to be set up as theories and by hints but also by Reaper motivation and meaning of the actions. An Indoctrination doesn't seem very plausible if they may get at best 50% chance of stopping the Crucible instead of signifcantly hampering the assortment of war assets. It would be still more plausible if the silly fights of the diplomats with whole starfleets and systems falling prey to the Reapers and the denial of the existence of Reapers and of the possibility of a threat in the face of almost being defeated by a live Reaper and the Collector would be explained by Indoctrination.<br /><br />I believe there is a twist, but that it is no more than the disappointing ending itself.Felixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-68536259755478551152012-03-27T10:03:51.994+00:002012-03-27T10:03:51.994+00:00Good article. I think I agree with most of that - ...Good article. I think I agree with most of that - it does remind me that my expectations for game endings are pretty low though. I wasn't impressed with the ending I got, but I always expected it to be one built by committee and be vaguely disappointing at best - that's just what I assume I'll get in most games. When it's a book of course, I expect a higher standard, despite the time and money spent on it being a lot less.Tom Lloydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08624959298168468476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-61814654232410980692012-03-27T07:58:53.414+00:002012-03-27T07:58:53.414+00:00This comment has not much if anything to do with M...This comment has not much if anything to do with ME3, but more my opinion on sad endings, killing characters, and all around playing with the emotions of the gamer/viewer/reader...<br /><br />"I'm okay with dark endings, but these are some bitter pills we're being asked to swallow."<br /><br />I'm good with all the bitter pills possible. Especially if it's the ending. Not everything should have a happy ending, especially when it involves a war. Anytime something happens that blows everything to shit or my favorite character dies I tip my hat and say thanks for having the balls to do that. On a note about killing characters, especially my favorites, I do like having the chance to see how they face death in whatever form it comes. A thought occurs to me which is I hope no one considers this trolling. I really do like swallowing all those bitter pills. That's not to say though that I can't accept an ending that doesn't really mess with you, that's fine, but I do applaud when they really screw with you.ssgoriknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-71351389538854650592012-03-27T04:09:47.043+00:002012-03-27T04:09:47.043+00:00(cont.)
Second, I don’t believe that the three-c...(cont.)<br /><br /><br />Second, I don’t believe that the three-choice ending or the failure to conceive synthetic and organic life cooperation is too terrible. Plans for the crucible were seeded by the very same race that built the reapers. Step back and conceive a race that would try to prevent a biological apocalypse at the hand of synthetics, and then think of that same race developing the crucible. Clearly they’re going to have a problem with the idea that synthetic life can EVER co-exist, even with a hero that unites them. And there might be something to that; Shepard wouldn’t be around forever, and the petty differences exhibited and reinforced by every race at nearly every opportunity will inevitably come back and make things terrible again. Shepard’s ability to unite races would be, in the long run, very short-term indeed. So the VI doesn’t ask about whether or not you’ve got the geth to stop being dicks is an intentional oversight, rather than just something writers forgot about.<br /><br />I won’t address every single issue – and there are definitely some points worthy of lambasting (the Normandy thing, yeah) – but I hardly think the ending is the only poor 1% of the whole series. You could write ten more op-eds about internal inconsistencies as a constant in the series, rather than just the ending. But what I really think is the primary problem with the ending is that BioWare didn’t frame the conflict realistically enough. Javik is the only person on your team who could possibly understand the stakes, and he’s a DLC character, which shows how seriously BioWare is taking what he has to say (essentially, he’s non-critical at best). But if we had known, from the beginning, that despite Shepard’s heroics we’re not playing for humanity, or for the Council or Alliance or anything else, that it’s all a massive sacrifice for the next cycle, the ending would make more sense.<br /><br />Further, there’s this idea that your choices don’t matter, that you’re corralled into three stupid decisions. But this is hardly any different from the rest of the game. You have no choice in going on the suicide mission, for one. Even if you couldn’t give a runny shit about the collectors and human colonies disappearing, you have no choice about going through the omega 4 relay. You have no choice about confronting Saren, you can’t join with Cerberus to carve out a human-centered future galaxy. There are numerous choices that you never get to make, and none of those have been as universally reviled as the ending.<br /><br />And honestly, I get a kick out of speculating what shape the galaxy will take, post-reaper. Depending on the choices my Shepard made, the races that are still around and the spirit in which they cooperated, there are countless possibilities that would have been absolutely impossible to write.<br /><br />So I’m not upset about the ending. I’m upset that BioWare is kowtowing to a bunch of entitled asshats who are demanding a better ending (not including you in that category, Wert :p), sure. But I have no problem with the ending.Adam Frantihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05295883891381907690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-29572063822999746112012-03-27T04:09:15.871+00:002012-03-27T04:09:15.871+00:00Nice summation of many of the (numerous) problems ...Nice summation of many of the (numerous) problems with the ending.<br /><br />I think what I dislike the most about it is the sheer perversity of it in that the better you do throughout all three games, the worse the ending is. Make the right decisions? Gather the most support and resources from all the people you've successfully helped? Then congratulations: you've just managed to even more fully screw everything over for these people after the relays are destroyed.<br /><br />The better you do, the more fleets assemble to help you. I had Hanar, Volus, Asari, Krogan, even <i>Batarian</i>. I had the people of Zhu's Hope helping me out. I had the Quarians and the Geth on my side. What happens to everyone, now that the relays are destroyed? These planets and colonies are effed. They've all abandoned their homeworlds to come to Earth and assist in the fight against the Reapers; now they're here to stay.<br /><br />I've heard some people compare this to the end of the Hyperion Cantos, but that falls flat for me, because there was no element of reader agency at play there which had me taking a direct hand in the story and actively making the entire galaxy worse off by my actions. The ending also made logical sense, and was the culmination of the story themes throughout the books. <br /><br />Meanwhile in Mass Effect 3, I felt the game provided pitch perfect conclusions to some of the long-running story arcs (the genophage cure, the Quarian/Geth conflict), only to have the ending rip the rug out from under me. Hey, I worked hard to hook up Wrex and Eve and preserve the cure data so Mordin could die and end the genophage... only now, all the Krogan males have just shipped offworld; the females are fertile again, but the men are gone, so everything was in vain and the race is at an end. Or: I managed to broker a peace between the Quarians and the Geth, and the migrant Quarians finally have their homeworld back after the culmination of all their struggles and wandering. Oh, wait, no -- now their fleets are all at Earth, cut off from Ranoch, and they'll have to begin a, what, million? year pilgrimage back to their homeworld again.<br /><br />I'm okay with dark endings, but these are some bitter pills we're being asked to swallow.Jason Boulettehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15269351901077604805noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-1395226144183707572012-03-27T04:09:11.636+00:002012-03-27T04:09:11.636+00:00Not that I want to tarnish what is an otherwise ex...Not that I want to tarnish what is an otherwise extremely logical and well-written refutation of the ending, but I massively disagree.<br /><br />One small note before I dive into the meat of my arguments, I don't think the ending, or the series as a whole, is perfect. I think Mass Effect 2 was flawed in a number of critical ways, and with a project as large and as ambitious as Mass Effect is, logical fallacies are going to be there no matter what. Even with a writing team as talented as BioWare usually brings to the table.<br /><br />First, I very strongly disagree that the ending is thematically inconsistent or even poorly written. First of all, one of the biggest themes of the series to date has been sacrifice - I'm not going to get into it all to try to be concise but I hardly think it warrants much explanation - and Shepard, in the end, is basically the guy who has to pull the trigger on making a sacrifice even he or she didn't expect. <br /><br />What it boils down to, in my mind, is that from the moment Shepard activated the beacon on eden prime, most of the galaxy was doomed. The fact that Shepard, because of the beacon, was actually able to go about an accomplish what he did is remarkable in itself, especially when you find out that the Protheans were only able to continue the fight as long as they did because they brutally united the galaxy under their rule. <br /><br />Sheaprd’s ultimate victory, no matter what she decides, is that she was able to spare the galaxy from a clean-slate restart, leaving behind a galaxy following her legacy (either paragon, probably manifesting in cooperation, or renegade, leaving scattered opportunists) and advancing on their already impressive scientific knowledge. Not to mention the fact that now there’s an opportunity for advancement beyond the proscribed 50k year mark. The galaxy is in much better shape than it would have been without Shepard. More on this a little later.Adam Frantihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05295883891381907690noreply@blogger.com