tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post5817875779511409907..comments2024-03-22T19:07:21.790+00:00Comments on The Wertzone: Will GAME OF THRONES overtake the novels?Adam Whiteheadhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-7996951636189468252016-04-21T20:36:54.015+00:002016-04-21T20:36:54.015+00:00It's impressive reading these comments three y...It's impressive reading these comments three years later and seeing how wrong almost all of them are. "GRRM will keep ahead of the show," "the audience will lose interest and the show will end by then," "AFFC/ADWD will be extended to three seasons," "the show will pause for a few years," "the show will run for 10-12 seasons." Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-33482149530103819382013-04-18T08:01:57.256+00:002013-04-18T08:01:57.256+00:00GRRM has explicitly ruled out a Robert's Rebel...GRRM has explicitly ruled out a Robert's Rebellion story, either in the books or TV series. It is not happening.<br /><br />He has, however, proposed a DUNK AND EGG spin-off project to HBO.Adam Whiteheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-76355242593854718042013-04-17T11:02:06.545+00:002013-04-17T11:02:06.545+00:00First of all let me say that this was a pretty wel...First of all let me say that this was a pretty well thought-out post.<br /><br />Now, possible spoliers for what I'm about to say...<br /><br />GRRM recently made a new 2-year deal with HBO. Assuming, that this is in now way related to the ongoing series, it might a safe bet that GRRM is planning to adapt a prequel of sorts.<br /><br />Think about it for a moment, after the adaptation of ADwD, the on-going series can temporarily pause. The next 1 or 2 season can be the prequel tales and then again continuing on with the final 2 novels. By that time, I think Martin can easily dish out the remaining 2 books. Also this way, HBO can delve into the back story of the Targaryan Dynasty as well as Robert's Rebellion, Jon's parentage & the events at the Tower of Joy.<br /><br />This way, the audience would connect better with Aegon's invasion of Westeros rather than some random Targaryan boy who has been basically in hiding all this time.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15833439835967364836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-1508930686061368882013-03-30T06:34:29.238+00:002013-03-30T06:34:29.238+00:00I don't quite get this idea of a season being,...I don't quite get this idea of a season being, e.g., "A Storm of Swords Part 2/A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons Part 1" or " A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons Part 3/The Winds of Winter Part 1." I can see an individual season taking bits of the next book the way that Arya's arc in Season 1 ended with her first chapter from ACoK, or the Jamie, Brienne, and Sam arcs ending with things from the beginning of ASoS, but then I don't think people would call Season 1 the "A Game of Thrones/A Clash of Kings Part 1" season, or Season 2 to "A Clash of Kings Part 2/A Storm of Swords Part 1."<br /><br />This is because the books tend not to end the arcs at arbitrary points, and neither will the show. Of course Tyrion's arc in Season 4 is going to end where it ends in the third book, rather than him floating down towards Volantis. Of course Jon's arc in Season 4 will end where it does in ASoS. Having a satisfactory character arc in a season is way more important to the showrunners than mechanically proceeding through the books at a rate of N pages per season.<br /><br />And if this means we see less of a character in a particular season, so be it. We saw next to no Jaime in Season 2, and it worked fine, because there was so much other action going on. With the character count increasing, this will be even less of an issue in future seasons. Arya might very well have comparatively little to do in Season 4. They could also pad her arc a bit (the way they did Jaime's this past season) while still ending the season with her sailing to Braavos. Or they could bring her to Braavos midseason. Any of those would work. That's definitely not a sign of a narrative urgency to speed things up and end ASoS halfway through Season 4.<br /><br />That said, bearing in mind that the books will bleed into each other somewhat, I think this is at least a cleaner way of looking at how things might develop:<br /><br />2013-2014 ASoS<br />2014-2015 AFfC/ADwD<br />2016-2017 TWoW<br />2018-2019 ADoS<br /><br />They could conceivably get three seasons worth out of AFfC and ADwD, they're a bit slower than the other books, but they do have a lot of material (some of which could be padded or spiced up by the showrunners), and as it is the last two seasons went at a pretty quick pace which the show could benefit from slowing down somewhat.<br /><br />But I don't think you're going to see *too* much more bleeding between books than we have already; I'm pretty sure these showrunners would rather slow down the narrative at points than have character arcs begin and end at arbitrary points (and the show isn't one that suffers from a slow pace yet).<br /><br />So let's say there's an average of four years preceding each of the next two books, and we get Winds in 2015 and Dream in 2019. Not an unreasonable pace, assuming no Meerenese knots, scrapped five year time gaps, overworking, etc. (though certainly not guaranteed). At the very worst, the release of Dream would be roughly concurrent with its airing on TV, and in that case I strongly suspect they'd find a way to put the book out before the final episodes aired.<br /><br />So it's going to be close, but I don't think it's time to get too panicked just yet. And mostly I wanted to make that point about season splitting.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02713721376647721785noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-73811489032311001402013-03-29T13:49:19.619+00:002013-03-29T13:49:19.619+00:00I don't see the scenario where it takes GRRM m...I don't see the scenario where it takes GRRM more then 7 books to finish the series :). I for one think that it's impossible to finish in 7, and he will need 8 or even 9. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-61399453930844436782013-03-12T10:40:08.224+00:002013-03-12T10:40:08.224+00:00Too many people here are confusing skill of writin...Too many people here are confusing skill of writing with the kind of narrative surprises that made ASOS awesome. Yes, AFFC and ADWD slow down in pace (slightly): that's the point. The characters are built up, and you can feel the momentum cranking towards the end of ADWD - can't wait for these last two books!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-48663803524534298402013-03-11T13:28:53.339+00:002013-03-11T13:28:53.339+00:00I think they might make a season for dunk & eg...I think they might make a season for dunk & egg to show till the 7th book comes out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-83841135956594729122013-03-05T19:34:54.967+00:002013-03-05T19:34:54.967+00:00I agree with Adam. I actually liked Tyrion's ...I agree with Adam. I actually liked Tyrion's story in A Dance with Dragons, and liked the book as a whole much more than everyone else seemed to. I think people just built up too much anticipation in the years between Storm and Dance. The writing is just as good, and as always some plots move quickly and other slowly. Theon's story was also amazing, and Arya's was one of my favorite Arya plots of the series.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-28890196071302971342013-03-04T21:29:45.043+00:002013-03-04T21:29:45.043+00:001. He convinces Aegon (fake or not) to undertake a...1. He convinces Aegon (fake or not) to undertake a military invasion of Westeros.<br /><br />2. He convinces a powerful mercenary force to swap sides at the Battle of Meereen.<br /><br />3. He meets up with Jorah, catalysing his return to Team Dany.<br /><br />Though I think it's still up in the air if #3 is actually worthwhile in the long run (since Jorah's trip to Volantis and back is a bit pointless in the long run; he may as well have simply remained in the vicinity of Meereen and joined up with the rest of the story there).Adam Whiteheadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11383677312079611311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-50973206069826225642013-03-04T16:54:12.976+00:002013-03-04T16:54:12.976+00:00Judging from the quality of the show (writing espe...Judging from the quality of the show (writing especially) they have enough sense to deviate from the original material big time after the end of ASOS. I'd say the writing is on the wall with some not so minor deviations from the original plot already in place. RW is brutal, but it's still great storytelling. What comes after still holds to being brutal but certainly has nothing to do with good storytelling. I challenge those who'd like to rebut me with naming three interesting things Tyrion does (or says for that matter) after ASOS. hungrytalesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-91621769334567827572013-03-04T07:44:05.771+00:002013-03-04T07:44:05.771+00:00I think that GRRM regularly takes up too many side...I think that GRRM regularly takes up too many side projects.<br />Of course, it's entirely up to him to decide what he wants to work on but he has admitted that himself in past statements.<br />In my view these side projects really are the key to the problem. Martin surely doesn't 'write like the wind' but that's not the problem, the problem is that too big a portion of his time in the past years he didn't actually work on 'Dance', hence the delay.<br />I guess if he finishes all the little projects that he's already committed to but keeps new projects to a minimum the work on ASoIaF could actually proceed quite well. Thus, he could get the remaining books out in a timely manner without compromising their quality.Jenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03623941508503788134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-51349475279131335072013-03-04T04:51:22.753+00:002013-03-04T04:51:22.753+00:00Everyone saying that A Feast for Crows and A Dance...Everyone saying that A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons are too slow paced or boring to be adapted in to good television: I urge you to reflect on how television drama works, especially those which have high budget explosive finales like Game of Thrones. AFfC and ADwD are PERFECT for television. Television focuses on character development and internal conflicts much more than films do, and the storylines in the most recent books would lend well to that, especially when it comes to Tyrion and the Prince of Winterfell. Arya has her training, which will also lend well. While it would be somewhat foolish of me to think that Arya's training would e stretched out through two years, I think instead of us getting The Winds of Winter mixed in too much with Feast and Dance, I think we'll get the latter half of Storm with the introduction of F&D (like someone mentioned earlier) and the writers will flesh out some plotlines to make them work for two seasons. And that's just for the really popular characters who don't do much in those two books. The cast will be so large by then, even if they only introduce a quarter of the main characters the books had by then, that several characters will only be appearing in two or three episodes per season, something that already has a precedent in Season 2 with main characters like Jaime. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-88140083396012683552013-03-04T04:44:14.937+00:002013-03-04T04:44:14.937+00:00I kind of want the show to go ten or twelve season...I kind of want the show to go ten or twelve seasons just so all the people who said there would be no way for it to surpass six or seven will feel silly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-12426889392999083592013-03-03T03:36:20.729+00:002013-03-03T03:36:20.729+00:00Hell, I'll be very surprised if we get WoW in ... Hell, I'll be very surprised if we get WoW in 2015 (I'm guessing 2017 is much more likely) and if this series is actually completed in seven books, meaning the show will get to tell the story first. On the other hand, I'm guessing the show will probably be cancelled after season 5- I think the splitting of Storm is going to do more harm for the non-book reading audience than good, and that this season is going to start dropping numbers. Of course, I'll be happy to be proven wrong in all these things (except for the eight books... I think we'll be needing an extra one to wrap everything up well at this point), but we shall see.Caligula_Knoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-25872068836911394992013-03-02T17:58:40.165+00:002013-03-02T17:58:40.165+00:00i think there are huge chances that the show will ...i think there are huge chances that the show will end after season 4, since there is significant drop quality in books 4 and 5. for wide audience at least.<br /><br />if not, 6-7 seasons are maximum, 9 could not be true. i will be surprised if ending in that case will be different in books, surely grrm is capable for that. doubt that he wants last book be a kind of novelisation Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-59837173549027826202013-03-02T17:44:44.142+00:002013-03-02T17:44:44.142+00:00Surely the answer is for someone to strap George d...Surely the answer is for someone to strap George down and MAKE him write the end of the series as quickly as possible. I don't imagine anyone would be disappointed if WoW appeared early! Looks-Mostly-Harmlesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00918651503213054373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-22946667536759784062013-03-02T16:22:36.305+00:002013-03-02T16:22:36.305+00:00I haven't read the books yet because the serie...I haven't read the books yet because the series not complete (too much other stuff to be read), but I am buying the novels as they're apparently worth it.<br /><br />I also don't watch movie/TV adaptations anymore before I've read the books they're based on (if I have the books on my reading pile, that is). So, I'm not as emotionally invested in the show as most people here.<br /><br />Yet, I would very much like this show to be great, because I want to watch it later on! ;-)<br /><br />So, when I heard the announcement about the show, Adam's question "Will GoT overtake the novels?" was the first thing that came to my mind. Obviously I failed to know how much 'meat' there is in each novel and whether it's worth more or less than a season.<br />Still, given Martin's track record I was skeptical if he could deliver the last book before the show catches up.<br /><br />Honestly, I don't understand why they started adapting it at the time they did. This whole timing issue could've been avoided had they started a few years later...Jenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03623941508503788134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-35110332736550038722013-03-02T10:29:23.672+00:002013-03-02T10:29:23.672+00:00Good analysis. It's going to be scenario 3 for...Good analysis. It's going to be scenario 3 for sure.<br /><br />The HBO series is going to last 7 series, 8 absolute maximum. Any more is wishful thinking. No way GRRM will finish the books before. HBO will skip a number of the non-core storylines from AFFC and ADWD and truncate others. One has to think of character arcs and season endings, rather than books, to understand how the writers will structure the series. <br /><br />This is the most likely scenario for the HBO series.<br /><br />2014: Season 4 - A Storm of Swords Part 2/A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons Part 1<br />2015: Season 5 - A Feast for Crows/A Dance with Dragons Part 2/The Winds of Winter Part 1<br />2016; Season 6 - The Winds of Winter Part 2/A Dream of Spring Part 1<br />2017: Season 7 - A Dream of Spring Part 2. The End.<br /><br />Such a scenario would be a positive outcome as the risk of lingering on AFFC and ADWD for too long risks viewers lose interest and the show being cancelled.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-66054018202369474162013-03-02T08:25:48.135+00:002013-03-02T08:25:48.135+00:00Cheers to a great post Adam! You know I really don...Cheers to a great post Adam! You know I really don't see this ending how we would all love to see it end. I'm rather pesimistic about the whole thing, but I'm also greatful that so far we've had two GREAT seasons and another on the way. The way I see it is I'm grateful to get what we got ya know? If it goes all the way-awesome, and if not? Well shit we still had Sean Bean playing Eddard Stark right? Cursed Armadahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11231771423272385479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-30584837416728823102013-03-02T04:13:26.616+00:002013-03-02T04:13:26.616+00:00fascinating
Re: Arya having nothing to do but roa...fascinating<br /><br />Re: Arya having nothing to do but roam the Riverlands if Season 4 is mostly ASOS....<br /><br />Season 2 was mostly ACOK....but ended with Jamie and Brienne's arc from the beginning ASOS <br /><br />There is no reason that if Season 4 is largely ASOS that Arya can't use her coin to secure transportation (as she does in that book) but also start her adventures in Braavos...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-65113886665014182102013-03-02T01:46:08.637+00:002013-03-02T01:46:08.637+00:00I'm probably in the minority but I struggle to...I'm probably in the minority but I struggle to see how you could get 2 seasons of <b>good</b> television out of AFFC/ADWD. Story lines in both books meander and I can see that if they're completely faithful, viewers will switch off in droves. On that basis, I have no doubt the tv series will surpass GRRM, assuming it makes it that far.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-44837858670793094912013-03-01T23:37:30.371+00:002013-03-01T23:37:30.371+00:00Good article and interesting speculation, but it&#...Good article and interesting speculation, but it's a moot point. HBO's series will end before GRRM has to worry about the show catching or passing him. HBO's viewers consist largely of people that HBO doesn't think can keep an Asha and an Osha straight, even though the characters are played by two different actors and their parts of the story only intersect briefly. These viewers will lose interest as the plot gets complicated beyond their comprehension when material from AFFC and ADWD hits the screen, the show's numbers will decline, and it will collapse under its own bloated budget. The biggest fear is that Benioff and Weiss will see this coming and attempt to give the show an "end" and nerf the story on screen based on what they know from GRRM about how the books are supposed to end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-40092924720232392722013-03-01T23:05:55.277+00:002013-03-01T23:05:55.277+00:00Also, for pedantry's sake, Sopranos technicall...Also, for pedantry's sake, Sopranos technically only ran 6 seasons--but most of them were 13 episodes each, and season 6 was actually mega-sized and split into two parts, making it two seasons for all intents and purposes. The show ran 83 episodes altogether, if I'm not mistaken, which is more than GoT would have if it ran seven or eight seasons at the current rate. <br /><br />But of course, for all HBO's production values and the huge salaries the cast could command at that point, Sopranos was still a relatively inexpensive show--it was set in the modern day, didn't require much in the way of special effects, etc. This is also true of The Wire. <br /><br />Nevertheless, I don't think "the shine could wear off" really applies here, simply because of HBO's model not being tied into conventional ratings. It's likely that GoT will simply come to be seen as part of what you get with HBO. Even if the buzz dies down it's not going to single-handedly tank HBO's subscriber base--for GoT to be canceled HBO as a whole would have to run into financial trouble (as is apparently what happened with Deadwood, Carnivale and Rome) and even then, the massive DVD sales would probably make it worthwhile anyway. <br /><br />Failing a disaster, I think this show is going to be allowed to run as long as it needs...so it comes down to Martin. And yeah, I'm guessing the final book will be arriving AFTER the final season. I do think TWOW will make it into print before S6, or whatever season will be drawing from it.I actually am betting this will be S7--I don't think they're getting through the rest of SoS, FfC and Dwd by S5, personally. And the thing is, the show so far has felt a bit rushed, especially S2. As much as people complain about padding, I honestly think the show could use more time to stretch out. Especially since just watching these actors hang out and chat is so entertaining. Pranksterhttp://www.phantasmictales.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-24418408796564644032013-03-01T19:58:11.011+00:002013-03-01T19:58:11.011+00:00And yes the Kingsmoot happens concurrently with St...And yes the Kingsmoot happens concurrently with Storm, but Meera and Jojen meet Bran in Winterfell. Clearly the writers aren't too concerned with keeping the timelines parallel to the books'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7703856341303488608.post-59126425056948633212013-03-01T19:50:28.433+00:002013-03-01T19:50:28.433+00:00I think you're hugely underestimating the amou...I think you're hugely underestimating the amount of time it will take to adapt A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons. Dance is about as long as Storm, and would need two seasons of it's own if it was adapted straight, and Feast is a bit longer than Clash. I'm thinking the events of Feast and Dance will entirely take up three seasons, and that some events from Storm will leak in to those, though with some characters who don't have much to do in those two books (Bran, Arya to a certain extent), it's possible Winds will move forward a bit.<br /><br />And you're assuiming the writers won't just break from the books entirely. I doubt they'll be using the Three Eyed Crow in the way the books did.ThegreatSzabonoreply@blogger.com